The world’s second oldest profession...

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Steve S.
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The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:43 pm

I was just reading a variety of threads about Tenyo knockoffs here on the forum and remembered my old claim that ripping off magic effects is the second oldest profession. We all know what the oldest one is supposed to be.

It seems that copies of Tenyo tricks are less commonly made nowadays as far as I can see. Please comment here If I am incorrect and examples of more recent knockoffs would be appreciated. I just have not been seeing Tenyo knockoffs being made as often as I used to in the past. I am wondering why actually. Is it because the market has shifted in different directions?

I saw a couple of knockoffs here on the forum which I never knew about and found fascinating such as Impossible Pen. Never saw that one before!

So, what is your take on this and anything you have to add would be appreciated.
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Richard W
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:40 pm

How about it is Tenyo don't make anything worth knocking off anymore. Has to be good for someone to bother. Cardboard tricks, food themes, not very exciting.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:07 pm

Come to think of it, the one copy recently made that I remember was of Zig Zag Cig. Actually, it may have been a new run when they sold out and I remember it being advertised as an affordable version of an old classic.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:13 pm

How much more affordable could it be when the original is still sold for 12.50?
One of their better hunks of plastic still available.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:27 pm

It sells for around $8 to $10 in the US and I attached a photo of it here. Notice how they updated the design on the new run to match that of the Tenyo version. By the way, I know you can get the Tenyo one cheap but it actually retails for around $20 in the US.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:41 pm

Actually no it has been selling in USA for $12.50 on Penguin Magic for as long as I can remember and says retail is $16.67

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8940

As well as Crystal Cleaver is only $16.31 retail $21.75

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S14320

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:52 pm

Penguin is a discount shop as you can see by browsing their site. They take 25% off many items when permitted by the maker so their pricing, in many cases, is lower than the true retail. So, their prices do not represent the norm but are nice when looking to buy some Tenyo.

Most other shops cannot sell Tenyo for the same prices as Penguin.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:18 am

Only place I go to buy Tenyo. Price is cheap because they don't try to rip off their customer base and keep them coming back for more. I have told people for years to go there. ;)

It seems to be normal as even MJM Magic sells Tenyo Zig Zag Cig for the same exact price of $12.50 also says retail is $16.67 too. This is the only other place I go if Penguin is out of stock.

http://www.mjmmagic.com/store/zig-zag-c ... 11010.html

Same thing with Crystal Cleaver same exact price $16.31 retail $21.75

http://www.mjmmagic.com/store/crystal-c ... 14326.html

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:25 am

They are in the same situation as Penguin so share the same low prices. Most other shops can't compete with the two you mention.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:33 am

Then why should anybody go any place else. ;)
They both have things you can't find other places, also have a loyal customer base.

You can't find better customer service than Penguin Magic.
I have returned things no other place would think about taking back.
Have gotten free things for my inconvenience several times as well.

Great place to shop they also have their own great video instructions with most purchases too. ;)

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Inspired by Richard W, here is a list of 6 reasons to buy the Zig Zag Cig copy...

6- it uses pencils
5- design matches the one on the genuine Tenyo version
4- it’s cheaper
3- it’s a different color than the Tenyo version
2- you will be increasing your Tenyo copy collection
1- why not?

Thank you very much! :D
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:49 pm

Inspired by Steve S

Six reasons to not buy Zig Zag Ripoff of Tenyo.

6. It is a Tenyo Ripoff.
5. Supporting someones rip off others magic is bad for everyone that invents magic.
5. Inferior rip offs never are as good as the original.
4. You can put anything in Tenyo Zig Zag like pencils so why buy a cheap rip off to get pencils.
3. Paying $12.50 for the real deal is light years better than $2.50 slightly less for junk.
2. Who should be proud of increasing a collection of cheap copies of Tenyo.
1. If the Tenyo item is still available and dirt cheap why by a China rip off?

Thank me very much :mrgreen:
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:28 pm

Although I am tempted to respond to a few of the numbers in your list, I prefer to just let it go and move on to other posts.

It’s against the policy of this forum to argue and my responses can be misconstrued as just that. There is no point in me dissecting or criticizing your points even though a few of them trouble me to some extent.

So, if John or a moderator wants to lock this thread, I think it would be a great idea. Unfortunately, this topic evolved into directions I did not anticipate. My intention was simply to do some fact finding.

Thank us all very much! :|
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 pm

My points are valid I stand by them.

All I did was point people to where in the USA they can in fact get the real Tenyo Zig Zag at a price that can't be beat. Not one but two locations. :)

My list would have not appeared if I wasn't the main focus of yours. ;)
No arguments are going on just difference of opinions.

No reason to lock this thread or any others as nobody argues on this forum. :D
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:37 pm

Alrighty then...here is my response/non-argument “just for the sake of argument”. :lol:

6- Tenyo copied tricks of others such as Cubio and Crazy Spots so why are they untouchable?
5- You just bought a copy of a Tenyo creation. Isn’t that a touch hypocritical? ;)
5b- How do you know it’s inferior? It may be just as good!
4- Noone said you are buying the copy to get pencils.
3- How do you know it’s junk. Actually, you don’t!
2- It’s not a matter of proud. It’s a matter of increasing that category of one’s collection if one enjoys collecting that sort of thing.
1- Because someone may want it for whatever reason.

May this thread live on and prosper! :D

P.S. Nice illustration creation. :)
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:18 pm

6. Tenyo has no shame they have no problem coping someone else's tricks.
5. I haven't bought anything I evaluated the same exact one John did he sent it to me.
5b. It is a copy likely is inferior as history has proven most the time.
4. Average of facts known generally China makes junk.
3. As a point in the list to buy it, has a pencil as an advantage.
2. Collecting a knock off has no Tenyo collectable value why not get the real one still being sold.
1. People make bad decisions everyday.

P.S. Comparing someone obtaining a none China remake of a extremely expensive long discontinued, can't be found Ultra Tube to a still being made $12.50 Zig Zag Cig is laughable to bring up in this arena. :lol:

The last word will never be achieved. :D

The angry Penguin has spoken. :lol:

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:37 pm

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!

I just read the P.S. you added to your last post and please be aware that a copy is a copy is a copy. Which trick was copied and how rare and expensive it is are invalid arguments. Further...on which forum an opinion is being expressed is irrelevant. In essence, why is this arena any different than any other when it comes to me making correct statements? ;)

Conclusion: You may be stray trippin my friend! :o :shock: :lol: :roll: :D

Your turn... 8-)
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:47 pm

Again you think you have made correct statements yet have gone way down a road littered with invalid detour signs. A copy of something that is no longer being made anymore is a copy to be sure. Yet making a copy of something that is still being made for no other reason than to cut into the original makers current bottom line such as the Zig Zag Pencil you seem to want to push for whatever reason is not the same but appears you think it is which is a beaming light into your character. Yes remaking something that is no longer made, cannot be found anymore, and is very expensive if it can be found is a copy but does not cut into the original makers "current" income. And servers a purpose that is not steeling money from the pocket of the original maker. It allows someone to have something that cannot be currently bought. So remaking something no longer made may be immoral and maybe illegal isn't hurting the original makers current income like one that is still being made. If you can't see the difference then maybe I am talking to Stevie Wonder. :lol:

This arena unless you missed it happens to be a Tenyo forum not a China Tenyo knock off forum. :lol:

And when I said arena it wasn't the forum I was taking about it was this particular thread that is about to break and come unraveled. :mrgreen:

Good day sir ....I said good day! 8-)

P.S.

Original Tenyo Crystal Cleaver Only $16.31 On Penguin!
Angry-Penguin-15.jpg
:D :) ;) :lol:
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:24 pm

You said...

This arena unless you missed it happens to be a Tenyo forum not a China Tenyo knock off forum. :lol:


Apparently, you have not yet discovered these discussion categories...

Jenzo Harmonics, Tenyo-Like Magic, Magic in General, and Miscellaneous.

Now who's talking to Steve Wonder?


Have fun responding but I am no longer going to participate in this thread. Adios!
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:36 pm

It appears I am still talking to Stevie Wonder we are currently in Miscellaneous. ;)

To put Jenzo Harmonics into the same category with a china made knock is pretty insulting to say the least. His creations I don't believe he is hurting any current bottom line. I agree no need to reply this thread has broken astalavista baby :lol:

Has been fun see ya.

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by David DeTenyo » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:11 pm

There's no reason to close this thread imho. Different people have different opinions, so be it.

The question/subject is interesting. When is making a copy of an existing magic trick and selling it (thus making a profit for yourself) ok, and when isn't it?

I once wrote an article about this subject on my previous website but due to personal circumstances and a lack of time I can't find it for the time being.

As far as I'm concerned, copying a magic trick is a no go, as long as the inventor is selling his product. Magiro, Tony Lackner, ... they all made wonderfull magic props and Babushka for example is tough, VERY tough to find, extremely expensive and/but ... a wonderfull trick everyone should be able to enjoy. I supplied the idea to Magic Wagon with the help of a very kind forum member and they made their version of it. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with that - Mr. Magiro is no longer with us, Magic Wagon made their own version but used the exact same principle.

Of course it is better to have the permission of the inventor to duplicate a certain trick. But, if he or she is no longer with us, and there is no patent, ... and her or his family doesn't loose money because there even isn't such thing as a patent ... and above all, it's a darn good trick ... heck why not duplicate it.

That's my humble opinion.

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:17 pm

David...you make good points and I must agree with you. In addition, I really do appreciate your modest approach in making them. That is what this forum is all about!

Well thought out my friend and thank you for sharing as well as bringing this thread back into a pleasant and respectful place.
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Richard W » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:26 pm

I agree with you too David and was my point all along if the trick is still being made that is where the line should be drawn to not make a copy unless you have permission as you say. This thread kinda went south as it progressed and sorry it went that way it was never my intention. I have always gotten along with Steve and see no reason that should change because of this difference of opinion.

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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by Steve S. » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:14 pm

I sincerely appreciate your comments above and want to thank you for them.

We are friends and it should stay that way.

Actually, we probably agree more than it appears in this thread. It’s just that the conversation went to an unfortunate place.

If you didn’t live so darn far, I would buy you a beer or two! :D
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Re: The world’s second oldest profession...

Post by BluBob » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:49 pm

Just send each other an e-hug, and say go-10-Yo!
and now, on with the show ...

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