New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

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New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby David DeTenyo » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:41 am

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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rob Rand » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:43 am

Yes ordered it. This is a must-have for me!
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby SimonC » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:50 am

this looks cool, MW is just way out of my league. are the chips all the same thickness?
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby BobD » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:08 am

SimonC wrote:this looks cool, MW is just way out of my league. are the chips all the same thickness?

I think so.

I have a similar trick made of plastic. It has no instructions and I was able to guess the method after 3 months. I do not know the effect and was not sure if it is a magic trick or just a holder for the chips. While playing with it one day I was able to discover the secret. The locking mechanism of the plastic version is very well made. I hope the MW trick has a good locking mechanism too.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby David DeTenyo » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:56 am

Is the plastic version made by Tricks Co. Japan Bob? I bought it at TheMagicGadgetsite a few years ago but it didn't work properly if I remember correct.

It's an intriguing effect but I do wonder how long it takes to 'peek' ... . If it is in a flash it's great, if spectators see you holding the box and peeking it could be a problem, but with proper misdirection it will work I'm sure.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby BobD » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:29 am

I do not know the manufacturer of the trick. I bought it from an estate. I do not even know the effect until I accidentally opened the gimmick. The trick is very easy to do but you need to hold box in order to make a peek. The opening and closing of the gimmick requires several seconds depending on the on how well the gimmick locks.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby JohnM » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:52 am

Looking at this aesthetically, I have a couple of comments.

I am not a fan of the brass plate with the etched graphics. I didn't like the Tiger and don't like these graphics either. I don't think they add to the trick (other than cost) and I think it cheapens the look. Even if the created great graphics to etch, I would still pass on the brass plates.

Also the plastic chips in a beautiful wooden prop does not work for me either. The chip represent the four element which are natural and organic so brightly colored plastic chips once again cheapen the look in my opinion.

Instead of doing the four elements I would have done four metals, gold, silver, bronze, copper. Even if it cost more it would be something that would be more beautiful and more desirable.

Also why does MW use such small photos on their site? Not many people have dial up modems anymore when it was critical to have smaller pictures.

That's my two cents.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Robert T » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:42 am

I agree with John about the chips. My first thought was whether different color casino chips could be used to replace the elements. It would mean the inside lid would have to be modified. I like the idea of a locking unit unlike Triple Dice Vision and Psychic Chest.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Roberto B. » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:59 am

For me this one looks too similar to the Aromatic Divination from Louie Gaynor that you can get for half the price. The only advantage I see in the Magic Wagon version is the internal plaque....that allow you to show the interior of the lid:

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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rob Rand » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:57 pm

Received Four Elements today, and I'm quite happy with it.
_20140827_195054.JPG


It is absolutely examinable, on the other hand it is pretty obvious for the spectator that you are doing something with your thumbs. But that's the downside of being examinable.
It resembled the old-fashioned Tele-vision box, which has a box in a box, and where the handling is much easier, but less examinable.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby SimonC » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:17 pm

I really like the element designs on the chips. I'm guessing the colours are key in the trick working? If you'd like any custom chips made with different symbols or more discreet colours just give me a shout, they're perfect for the laser cutter. same goes obviously for anyone else who owns this trick or similar
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Roberto B. » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Rob....so it does not work like the Aromatic Divination?
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rob Rand » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:49 pm

I don't know Roberto but I don't think so when I watch the video for Aromatic Divination, which I don't own.
The peek at Four Elements resembles the one at Tele-vision box.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Roberto B. » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:41 pm

aha...OK ......so I think I was mistaken.

The Tele-vision box is the one you made a video a while ago?
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rob Rand » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:49 pm

But I believe Roberto, that Aromatic Divination is actually a better divination item than Four Elements...
The peek on Four Elements is on the front side, which is not the case with Aromatic Divination.
And I must admit that Tele-vision box (see my video) is way better.
See also the posts in Magic Cafe Secret Session about MW.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby John B. » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:28 pm

JohnM wrote:Looking at this aesthetically, I have a couple of comments.

Instead of doing the four elements I would have done four metals, gold, silver, bronze, copper. Even if it cost more it would be something that would be more beautiful and more desirable.



Brilliant! I passed on this one, and after reading some of the comments on the Cafe, not regretting it.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby JohnM » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:13 pm

John B. wrote:
JohnM wrote:Looking at this aesthetically, I have a couple of comments.

Instead of doing the four elements I would have done four metals, gold, silver, bronze, copper. Even if it cost more it would be something that would be more beautiful and more desirable.



Brilliant! I passed on this one, and after reading some of the comments on the Cafe, not regretting it.


Thank you Mr. B. Where the heck have you been lately, on your Honeymoon or something. ;)
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby JohnM » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:15 pm

Image

Simon do you want to critique the typesetting on the brass plate shown in the picture or should I. ;)
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby SimonC » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:21 am

I think they spend a lot of time on the tricks themselves, the mechanics, manufacture etc are always top quality from what I've been told. It's a shame they don't have the same skills in the graphics department. This seems a bit like it's been drawn up on word '97 in what looks like Cooper. Just a bit of thought in the layout and font could have really given the trick an authentic feel and helped sell whatever story you give to the routine.
I love the symbols they've chosen though, I've not seen those before and they look really cool.

That's called the compliment sandwich and they are served every day at work, with a slice of "you're not working hard enough" pie.

As I said to rob, if anyone would like replacement/ improved chips for effects like this I can make them, in whatever colour you like (I thought all black but with the symbols in the bright colours would look cool).
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby SimonC » Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:07 am

I keep coming back to this trick it looks really cool, I wasn't sure about the bright colours at first but I think when you open it up for the first time it must have a really visual impact for the spectator. It's a fun one to try and work out too. Can't wait for the BrotherBor video of this one :)
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby JohnM » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:18 am

SimonC wrote:This seems a bit like it's been drawn up on word '97 in what looks like Cooper. Just a bit of thought in the layout and font could have really given the trick an authentic feel and helped sell whatever story you give to the routine.


I thought the same thing about MW possibly using MS-Word. The font looks like the default serif font and the title is smaller and horizontally scaled as compared to the symbol descriptions. I think it would have balanced better 4 across rather than 2 over 2. They were etching it anyway so why not add a border so the plate does not look as plain. Also the plate is crooked and not aligned to the sides of the cover. The symbols look OK but the earth one looks like a disc drive icon.

All this was probably not noticed by most of you guys but if a professional designer like Simon or myself designed the artwork for the plaque, you would see a big difference in comparison.

OK Graphic Design 101 is over for the day. Off to your next class, Solving Puzzles by Professor Superanto for you bright students and Basket Weaving 102 for the rest of you characters.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby David DeTenyo » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:57 am

This is the first time I'm reading so many 'bad' comments on TMC about an item. I passed on this one because I already own similar effects and I also couldn't really afford it.

Good to hear you still like yours Rob
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rob Rand » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:34 am

Well yes I like it and no the mechanism is a bit if a disappointment to me. Magnets again! that kills sort of the handling. Therefore I liked the previous one, the Gemstone and Hieroglyphs more.

And another point of worry is that the inlays are too undeep and the chips not thick enough, so that when you rattle the closed box they leave their holes and travel downwards. But that is an issue Simon can solve :)
So yes it seems that this item is not tested thoroughly enough in performing.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby JohnM » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:51 am

I just read through the latest comments on the Magic Cafe and it looks like the Kool-Aid is finally wearing off and people are starting to see MW for what it has become rather than what it was.

Image

BUT

There are still those who are loving it no mater what. I think they are afraid that too much negativity (which is really just honest opinions) can make the value of their tricks drop.

If MW continues on this path then I would suspect that you will start to see a sell-off which would cause a drop in value of these items on the secondary market.

A drop in value would hurt all MW collectors because most every one of these were bought at full value. For instance, if Tenyo prices dropped 50%, I and many others would still be OK because we bought many of them at lower prices when they came out or found some inexpensively which is still possible. There is no such thing as finding MW effects inexpensively although it looks like unfortunately this might change.

I was one of the first to write of the inherent problems with buying MW effects and now it seems like almost half agree with what I have been saying all along.

Some of the collectors on the Cafe are calling for MW to re-release some of the great effects from the past. If they start doing that, then that will be the signal to start selling off whichever ones you don't love. Re-releasing items from the past, even if they are slightly different, will dilute the rarity of their items which will in turn effect the value. Less value means less interest. Many collectors of any item are motivated by value whether they want to admit it or not. Why does everyone want an Ultra Tube, is it because it is so great or is it that is is so valuable? There are plenty Tenyo effects that are just as good as Ultra Tube which can be obtained at 1/10th the price but they are not on the top of the need/want lists.

Rather than pushing out another item next month, or re-releasing tricks from the past, MW should make sure they get it right before putting something out even if it takes more time.

Some MW collectors are still really clueless. I love the guy who asks if he trims his instructions, will that lower the value of his trick. Mr. Clueless, there are more pressing issues that will change the value and trimming your instructions is not one of them. I suspect this fellow will be the one stuck with a large collection when the smarter people got out without a substantial loss.

Of course with any collectible, only buy what you love, so if the value drops, which is probably inevitable for just about every collectible, even Tenyo, it will not hurt as much.

Another important idea is to buy low and sell high, unfortunately for MW effects there is no such thing as buying low.

This is all my opinion and probably not a popular one but that is the way I see it. I for sure don't want anything but good things for MW and their collectors as I am one of them.
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Re: New Magic Wagon: The Four Elements

Postby Rick » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:02 am

I passed on the "Four Elements" because it seemed like it would be similar to "Triple Dice Vision" to the spectator. I have two display cases where I keep my MW and Tenyo. I have to admit when someone is visiting I almost always pick a Tenyo trick to perform. The quality of MW is great but Tenyo is better to perform in my opinion. For example, I have Magic Wagon's "Ghost Board" but I aways pick Menta-Marvel instead because theres no set up and it has 3 predictions instead of only one. I have 10 MW pieces and it seems the only ones I use is "Diceolation" and "Psychic Chest".
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